ManagersandLeaders

Sherry said something on the AdviceOnHiring thread:

A manager is someone who uses people to accomplish work.
A leader is someone who uses work to develop people.

I'm now puzzling about the need for managers and leaders.

In the face of inadequate management, I've seen projects succeed with teams generating the leaders. I've also seen them fail.

With adequate management, I've seen projects succeed and fail with or without leaders.

Management and leadership, by themselves, are not enough. We need Dwayne's 3Ps and a bunch of other things. What else?

I'm confused. Anyone have any enlightening comments? Sherry, do you have a source for the above quote? -- JohannaRothman 2003.08.15

I'll take a stab at it. Teams need to align on goals, to realign when off track. Mechanisms are needed for goal setting, goal sharing, conflict resolution, obstacle removal and resource allocation. More than one mechanism/practice can provide these, but all are necessary for a team with more than one worker.

Management can provide the needed mechanisms with or without leadership. (I like Sherry's definition of leadership as using the work to develop the people!

Leadership can provide all but resource allocation mechanisms, so st least some management/administration is needed to augment grass roots leadership.

I think that management and leadership are somewhat orthogonal to each other -- it's a both - and not either - or situation.

-BobLee 2003.08.15

Here's another view, in terms of Sherry's definitions. You can manage things for a while without leadership, but without leadership, people don't grow and all the other stuff starts of deteriorate. In other words, a good manager might force a project or two through an organization by sacrificing growth opportunities, but in the end, the organization (and the individuals) pay the price. If you don't keep growing, you're dying - though you may not realize it until it's too late.

That's why we have the AYE conference! - JerryWeinberg 2003.08.15

I once saw an interview of Grace Hopper on TV. She gave the short description as

We lead people and manage things

Maybe that's too simple, but I have remembered it and cringe everytime I hear someone say "manage people." Many things I have heard and read in the last ten years have pointed me into agreement with the little saying. I cannot push an adult into agreement with me and if they don't agree with me they won't be committed to doing something that amounts to much. I think this is like experiential learning. The facilitator sets up an experience and the person involved learns something from their experience. The facilitator does not teach, the person learns.

I hope this makes some sense.

DwaynePhillips 16 August 2003

The quote is from Leadership When the Heat's On by Danny Cox and John Hoover. I will confirm the quote once I get a copy.

SherryHeinze 2003.08.18

I think it was probably Jerry who proposed that:-

A good manager is someone who takes the blame when things go wrong.
A good manager is someone who gives the team the glory when things go right.
A bad manager blames the team when things go wrong.
A bad manager takes the glory when things go right.

Doesn't leadership also imply direction, which manager doesn't?

There's the old tale about a team hacking their way through a forest, chopping down trees efficently (management) until someone (leader) climbs a tree and realises they are going the wrong way (effectiveness)

The use of the two terms depends on context as well. I'm reminded of an old British comedy sketch about the British class system

The term business leader sounds superior to business manager.

The term I/T manager sounds superior to team leader.

PhilStubbington 2003.08.19

Updated: Tuesday, August 19, 2003