GetOrganized

Esther here. I'm in Boston this week working with Johanna.

After we finished writing for the day, we worked on organizing Johanna's office. My office and Johanna's office bear a certain resemblance.... every horizontal surface is covered with interesting stuff - papers, books, magazines, things to follow-up on...

Organizing the office has been an ongoing project for Johanna. Over the years, she's received much advice from her very organized ESTJ husband and her very organized older daughter (the one who cleans her room twice a week, probably ESFJ or ESTJ).

The trouble is, they give her SJ organizing advice, and she's an NT.

So today we tried out some NT organizing:

-Start were you are, not at the beginning (e.g., Cleaning out the file cabinet so you have room to file things. This is lovely for an SJ, but an NT will never get started if this is the first step.)

-Throw out what you won't ever use (very hard for me)

-Let the filing categories emerge from the stuff

-Keep current projects out and visible (nicely stacked)

-Accept that categorization is an on-going process

I suspect that this wouldn't be very satisfactory for some people, but then JR isn't some people, she's JR.

Do you find the advice in organizing books seems like it was intended for another species? What sort of organizing principles work for you?

i would have answered this differently 2 days ago. yesterday i broke my elbow, now i realize that i was organized for a two-handed person. maybe bandit can help me figure out how to tie my shoes. -JerryWeinberg 2004.07.26

Jerry sorry to hear about your accident. My grandmother had severe arthritis of the hands and we had to convert her to velcro straps on her tennis shoes. I know they still sell tennis shoes that way. Cycling shoes also have velcro "laces." Many of the triathletes use lace locks that can be tightened with one hand on their running shoes.I have bunch of them if you would like to try them on your favorite shoes.

Believe it or not, as an SJ, I don't place a lot of energy on organizing books, papers, articles, or magazines these days. I don't have that much time to organize. I suspect many consultant's offices are in a similar state. Esther, your description of JR's office sounds like my office. I don't have that many shelves so there are many interesting piles of "stuff" laying around on the office floor.

JohnSuzuki 2004.07.26

John, I'm amazed that you have piles. Although, if you were like my daughter or my husband, they would be straight piles. (Mine are random piles :-)

Something else occurred to me yesterday when I was cleaning up. I described to Esther how I used to organize my work when I worked in an office for a company. (When I take on interim management jobs, I use that organization also.) I hadn't ever articulated it, and I hadn't realized until I said it that I had a different structure for my external working environment than I did for my home office. Once I said it, I was able to implement it. I'll have to see in 3 months if articulating the differences helped me to define what I need and whether I'm able to maintain it. -- JohannaRothman 2004.07.27

every horizontal surface is covered
Don't forget the floor. It is simply the lowest shelf in my office. DonGray 2004.07.27

You guys make it sound like horizontal surfaces were designed for something other than holding piles of interesting stuff:-)) If we didn't pile paper on them, they would just collect dust.

A couple of years ago, my daughter gave me a basket to put the papers which collect on the coffee table in. It works really well. The basket holds a lot more and I can still pile papers on the rest of the table. (I think she expected that I would leave the rest of the table clear, but she always has been an optimist.) SherryHeinze 2004.7.27

My wife and I have an interesting organizing dynamic. She says she'll throw everything in a huge pile away if I don't go through it. I say there might be something very important in there so don't throw it away. Sometimes she believes me. Sometimes I believe her. --DaveLiebreich 2004.07.27

every horizontal surface is covered
Don't forget the ceiling. It's horizontal too. I have lots of hanging things. Really increases space.

And thanks, John. I have some velcro slippers i'm wearing. - JerryWeinberg 2004.07.27

Sherry said: You guys make it sound like horizontal surfaces were designed for something other than holding piles of interesting stuff:-)) If we didn't pile paper on them, they would just collect dust.

LOL!

And your comment reminds me that I am not at all motivated to organize my office to have "a clean office." I organize it (periodically) so that I don't "waste time trying to find stuff."

Esther

Um. I'm an NT. Sherry might say what follows is because I'm also a Virgo. Dunno about that. I do know I would never read a book about how to organize anything. Who but me would know how to do that for me? I'm not sure I even knew there were such books.

I used to be decently slovenly like the rest of you (and I look forward to a decently slovely old age), but for some years I've been suffering from middle-aged fusspottery. I don't like living in a mess and I especially detest working in one. My office is, I'm afraid, sorted and tidy. (Is there a hyphen in 'anal retentive?')

My company has a clean desk policy. They take it to fatuous lengths -- apparently you're supposed to lock stuff away when you leave for 5 minutes to go for a pee. But once you get used to the idea it is curiously satisfying to come in to a clear desk in the morning, having put everything except the dog pictures away in an organized fashion the night before. I have to do this at client sites, and now I do it at home too. (At first I tossed it all anyhow into a drawer, but it took too long to get started in the morning. Speaking of not being able to find things.)

One way I keep my home office reasonably tidy is to have small trays & baskets to toss/rough sort papers into. When they threaten to overflow, I clean them out. If they were too big (like the one I keep next to my bed for books and gardening mags -- life does not imitate work) the tolerance level would be too high, and then I'd never get to them. Then it would be too overwhelming, and I'd have to wait till I really had time, and who ever does? FionaCharles 28-Jul-2004

I would say that it is typical of a Virgo, although not all Virgos or only Virgos are neat. But most of you are neat, organized and detail oriented. (The exceptions usually go to extremes in the other direction.) SherryHeinze 2004.7.29

Update: I've been able to maintain the system for about 3 weeks now. That's at least 2.5 weeks longer than any other system :-) -- JohannaRothman 2004.08.14

And I'm on my way, in case a refresh is needed.

ED 2004.08.15

You should check out a book called GettingThingsDone. There's a huge following on the web, and it's the one system I've read that actually skips all the "actualization" and heavy breathing and goes directly to a workable implementation. -- Will Sargent 5/11/05

I have a copy of GTD. I've read it -- several times. I sort-of do it with my email, but when I'm traveling and tired, I don't. I sort-of do it with my office, but when I'm tired and traveling or just back from traveling, I don't. I know it's supposed to make my life easier, but it feels like a lot of overhead. Do you have a pointer to the implementation that you're referring to? -- JohannaRothman 2005.05.12

"I know it's supposed to make my life easier, but it feels like a lot of overhead."

I think you feel about GTD as I do about Pair Programming. But I'm more terrified about dropping something than I am about the overhead of collecting it.

http://www.43folders.com/ is the best one IMHO. He advocates a system of 3x5 cards and Moleskine notebook:

This is probably the best low-tech option.

If you're high tech but mobile, then you can go with a Palm outliner application called Shadow Plan. If you spend most of your time at your desk, there's a PC application called Ecco Pro. Does that help at all?

WillSargent 5/12/05

Updated: Thursday, May 12, 2005