ManagementMusings

Management Musings is a place to comment on management stuff. For example ...

When I was just a young lad, and real programs were toggled into the computer from the front panel, I had the opportunity to experience two very different managers. One had worked in the application domain (manufacturing automation), and the other was from the "I'm a manager so it doesn't really matter what I'm managing" genre. As a code jockey, I respected the BTDT manager much more. In fact, to this day I still don't think you can manage something (especially software development) if you haven't done it.

How do you feel about this? Am I right? If so, what have you experienced that agrees with my experiences? Am I wrong? If so, can you share the counter examples? DonGray

I think it's like programming languages - you can't program in a language you don't know, but a real programmer can learn a new language in a couple of weeks, at most.

Similarly, you need to know some things about the domain in which you're managing, but a real manager can learn a new domain in a short time. That said, I have to concede that there aren't many real managers out there, but I have seen some, so at least I have an existence proof. -JerryWeinberg

I think it depends on what you want from a manager. The best manager that I have had in my career had not coded. But she listened to me and respected my ablilities (such as they were back then). I think she had a conceptual understanding of what I was talking about and doing, so she knew generally if I was on track on not - plus because she listened as well as she did, she could find out easily when someone was not pulling their weight. What set her apart, though, was that we talked periodically and we made agreements about what I would do and what she would do - usually for me. Then, if I was able to do what I agreed to, she followed through. Seems kinda basic, now that I write it down and it worked for me.

Other than her, I learned to try to find managers who would leave me alone. It is probably easier for a manager to leave me alone if they do not understand what I am doing. So, all in all, I would opt for managers who have not coded. And this seems rather cynical to me. Oh well. - BobKing

As a tester, I have only once worked for a manager who had tested. But I have worked for some good managers. I agree with Bob. As long as I can deal with someone who is prepared to listen and understand, I can deal with someone who has no experience in my particular field. The best manager I ever worked for had very limited development experience, but he paid so much attention to the people that he was far better than those who thought they understood because they had written code. One of the hardest to work for had testing experience, but very few people skills. SherryHeinze 2002/2/5

As a developer, the best manager I ever had was a former developer, but his management skills came from working in his father's tailor shop. When he took over the group, he devoted himself to the people and decision issues, delegating all the technical work to us. He had been a very good system programmer making IBM 7074 emulators work on 360-65 and porting that to later 370 gear. Timing cycles, pathological 7074 programming unravelling, etc. The worst managers I've had thought they were technical, but weren't current, so did more harm than good when the technical mood struck them. I encountered a very good consultant in Database design who had been a lawyer just prior to consulting. His organization skills impressed upon me the knowledge chunking needed to cope with large design.

I've noticed that a good, former tech manager has a gut understanding of fatigue [when you're too tired to make sense] and of when you are over your head in analysis. I think a non-tech manager has to be a good conscious observer to pick up on these gut-instinct readings. BobLee 2/6/02

So what we seem to be saying so far is ... if you don't have people skills, leave me alone and let me do my job. Not meaning to sound contrarian, but isn't it technical skills that get us promoted? That is until we get to the bottom rung of the management ladder (which is also our first job in management). This definitely substantiates the Peter Principle. Does it seem odd that we take people who are excellent technically, and then change their domain (from one of technical to people?) DonGray 2/6/2002

Well, it's not the oddest thing we do in software development. After all, some people who are technically excellent also have good people skills. Some of the other things managers do are never right. JerryWeinberg 2/6/2002

Pattern 2 Managers I think Jerry pointed out in QSM vol 1 that managers who feel "If I'm not actively issuing orders, things are not in control." [pattern 2 managers] don't understand that every "steering" action is a friction on progress. "Leave us alone" is excellent management of things being done right. Of course, a little acknowledgement and recognition when things are going right would tend to make that happen more often!

One of the top 10 worst managers I had was a pattern 2 manager (or maybe pattern 1) who loved fire-fighting, and rewarded it exclusively. The gung-ho at 3:00 AM ethic leaves me rather disenchanted - expecially when the rewarded few put the fires in prior to putting those same fires out! BobLee 2/9/2002

The best manager I ever had, was also the best systems developer in the small team he managed. That had already gained him the respect of the other systems developers. But he was no tester, which I am. He listened, learned, and held my feet to the fire in getting things done. As a sailor, I was a linguist. When promoted to officer, I managed teams of electricians then data-link specialists. What the Navy did differently than the software industry was to train its junior officers in management. That did not guarantee success but it gave us a fighting chance. The first time software managers I have known are pretty much on their own. And if the respect they earned on the technical side is sufficient, they continue to get promoted, no matter how bad they are at management. The good news from my experience is two-fold. Some, as Jerry noted, have the necessary skills. And some realize the problem and intentionally return to the technical side.

I offer a consideration that I am still working to wrap my mind around. Managers, just like me, are human and make mistakes. However, their mistakes, because of their office, get amplified early on. The higher the position the greater the amplification. MikeMelendez 020207

Mike. Thank you for the consideration. I totally agree. When I look at where managers exist in the system, I'm not suprised. In fact, it seems to me that the system is built that way. That is, the manager's output influences the outputs of many people. As you point out, the higher the position, the greater the amplification. Do Ensigns get to drive the ship? Maybe, but never when there's any danger around. So now that we agree, what can I do to help you warp your mind?<g> Oh, and I went from CTI -> 1605. DonGray 02/08/02

Don -- I responded to the personal side on your personal page.

As to my last comment, I'm working hard as to how to factor that into my approach to management, in particular, my management. I became an officer because I wanted to go to sea. I switched back to the technical side on leaving active duty because I like that better, even though I'm a generalist. I'm a project lead now and that seems just about the right place for me. To get back to my warping effort, how do I deal with the disparity in responsibility given the sameness in humanity? Are there enough humans out there able to carry the heavier responsibilities to fill the management slots? Or can we expect many of the managers to just look bad even though they are no worse than we (I), non-managers, are (am)? MikeMelendez 020208

Bob --

I started a response, but it got way long. So I created a new topic called ControllerModels. DonGray 02/08/2002

Mike,

To me, sameness in humanity is not the same as sameness in ability, experience, or desire. There's a Virginia Satir quote something to the effect of "We come together though our similarities. We grow through our differences." Although at some level we are all same, I feel we are more different. I exist in three primary circles, work (including AYE), kayaking (mental & physical stretch), and the local rescue squad (community service). If I were to talk with the rescue squad about topics like this, their eyes would glaze over in seconds.

As to enough people to handle the management slots, I believe there is. Aim your browser at and grab the summer newsletter. On page 14 there is an article about this topic. The writing style makes me cringe, but I think it addresses some of your concerns.

Maybe if we did a better job of training our junior managers, we'd have fewer software project failures. DonGray 02/10/2002

Mike said: What the Navy did differently than the software industry was to train its junior officers in management. That did not guarantee success but it gave us a fighting chance.

I was promoted into a management role becuase I was good at finding the fault behind the failure. This sort of ability to see the system is helpful in management, but it sure isn't enough. It's not as easy to steer a human system as it is to fix a bit of code.

What sort of training did you receive as a junior officer? How did it effect your abiity to transition into a management role?

EstherDerby Feb 10/02

While anticpating Mike's response to Esther's question, here's some added obervations.

- Bad management. I remember one manager who I believe was promoted on the good-old-boy network. I know he didn't have any technical or math skills (it was a financial institution), since he asked me to do those for him and I would even present results to other managers for him. He must have known the right people. I left when he denied a request for a raise saying that he thought my salary was "fine for a young lady". He had three daughters. I could escape.

I don't think "connections" was mentioned in how people get promoted. It is easy to assume that people are promoted on some merit. Sometimes I think people fill a slot as "the least objectional" person we can put here because we need someone to fill the position.

- Good mamagement. I can recall at least two really good managers. All were knowledgable about their business and technology, though not all were technically strong. All had excellent interpersonal skills and cared about the people that worked for them. They also all stood firm for what they believed in.

- Mediocre management. I am considering the rest of the people who managed me. The ones that stand out, were not leaders or highly skilled with people. They stuck me as ordinary and approachable. Interestingly, I learned as much from these folks. Their mistakes stood out and I could learn from them. Their successes were open, too and often shared with their staff.

I remember one fellow who made terrible mistakes with people, like repremanding them in front of others. On the other hand, we could tell this guy really cared about us. He showed kindness to people in times of stress. One day a friend of his had died. I went into his office to ask a question and tears were in his eyes. He wasn't embarrassed. I was touched. So, his sins were suffered. None of us at the time had any better skills. His technical skills probably got him promoted as those skills were highly respected. In many ways he was like an uncle.

Becky 2-13-02

I've been thinking about the best way to answer Esther's question. Three categories best sum up my referenced officer training: administration, management, and leadership. Bear in mind that the courses involved were, for the most part, taught by training amateurs. That is, fellow junior officers who had completed their first three year sea tour. Consequently, the order of the categories is also that of decreasing effectiveness. For administration, we learned, for example, what forms to use to order necessary supplies and how they were processed. We conducted the equivalent of playthroughs to get an idea of how the system worked. For management, we studied the timeless and then current management theories, with sometimes lively discussions on whether any of them were meaningful. For leadership, we mostly had near-platitudes and historical examples, as if we could figure out, e.g., from Midway how Admiral Spruance did it. Then again we also conducted useful playthroughs where we tried to counsel a real Chief Petty Officer playing the part of bringing a problem to his division officer.

The training meant I wasn't blind to the problems, especially people problems, that managers encounter. The administrative training was also very helpful, as I didn't have to figure that out at crisis times, as I have seen so many of my software managers do, to the neglect of their people. Still, nothing fully prepares you for the diversity of the humans an officer is responsible for motivating. In that respect, software managers have it somewhat easier. The diversity of Navy bluejackets makes the software industry look very narrow. But then, though a Data Technician can program, the industry has no equivalent of a Boatswain's Mate or a Boiler Technician.

MikeMelendez 020214

Handling diversity is probably wider for consultants, than someone within one company or industry. I've worked with Wall Street financiers, physicists, not-for-profit managers, telephony engineers, insurance actuaries, and a longer list. I'm not sure I have met an equivalent of a Boiler technician. I can tell you that people in Manhattan are very different to work with than people in Texas or Detroit.

- BeckyWinant 2-15-02

Reading the preview pages of DeMarco's Slack on amazon.com made me realize the inherent wrongness of matrix management -- the line manager is rarely involved in the work his employee is doing for the product managers, but the line manager is responsible for annual reviews of his employee. Isn't there some old bit of wisdom about not serving two masters?

I bought two other "management" books based on reviews by Ron Jeffries.

Software For Your Head by Jim and Michele McCarthy, which is a "design patterns" book on teamwork based on patterns identified by participants of their Software Development Bootcamp,

The Manager Pool which is a "design patterns" book on leadership by Olson and Stimmel.

Since I haven't read them beyond a few pages yet, I'll point you to Ron's reviews:

-- KeithRay

I've read both books, but I wouldn't recommend them.

I think The Manager Pool is more applicable to real life, but seems to describe the writer's "ideal manager', who would be much more self-sacrificing rather than I would think of as realistic.

KeithRay 3/29/02

See FirstDayAsManager for reminiscences on the mixed joy of transition to manager. Split off into separate page. BobLee 03/01/02

I've added a PreparingForManagementRole to pose this question: How do you prepare people on your team to move into management roles? What sort of training did you receive? What sort of training would you have liked to receive (but didn't get)?

EstherDerby 030202

Updated: Wednesday, April 10, 2002