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PeddlingYourWaresOnTheWiki

ManagingOneonOneWorkshop is a thread whose sole purpose seems to be to sell a course Johanna Rothman and Esther Derby are offering.

I wish them all success with the course, and admire their entrepreneurial spirit.

But I am not happy with AYE hosts/members of the community using the Wiki as a sales venue. While it's one thing to sneak a not-so-subtle plug into a discussion thread, I think it's an unfortunate precedent to start a new thread to flog a course. I feel that doing this cheapens the Wiki and subverts its purpose as a forum for discussion. If we all do it every time we have something to sell, nobody will want to read it.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

What do you think? Do you want everybody peddling their wares on the Wiki? Shall we have a new thread every time someone's new book comes out? Every time someone has a course offering?

Or could we find a compromise: some way of segregating advertising so sellers could publicize their offerings, and those who wanted could go to a "sellers expo" to read about them?

--FionaCharles 19-Jun-2006

We are often the best market for other participants work and some of us already spread the word in various ways. The hosts could use the blog, but other people only have write access to the WIKI. I suggested to Michael Bolton that he post something here. An alternative location might be better.

SherryHeinze 2006.06.19

I also like having the information available.

I suggest having a page like AnnouncementsOfActivities where people could list their new books, courses, and other business and non-profit activities.

DwaynePhillips 20 June 2006

I think this might be my bad. I am sorry for that. I feel somewhat responsible for this showing up, having introduced SellingWhatYouDo. I'm puzzled, myself, so my questions about that are not hard edged. In the event, I'm not so sure I should have started the topic in the face of the inevitable motivation to step from talking about "what you do", to doing selling.

I'm looking here for exploring together how to be effective. To my mind that includes understanding your offer, and listening well to the offers of others, thus SellingWhatYouDo. My interest is in exploring how people come to terms with what they offer, and the need for others to recognize that offer if they are to get to do their thing - if they are to get the chance to "be effective." I'm looking to pick people's brains a bit. That's a nice thing about getting a high-competence group together - contributions come from everywhere, and you don't know what you'll encounter. I also find myself uncomfortable alluding here to what I do for a living precisely because it has a flavor of selling vs. exploring together. Examples are hard for me because of this. I'm more interested in "What the h*** do I actually do for a living?" than pitching what I think I do.

The hosts can, in the end, adopt whatever policy seems right to them about what is included, where, and how. For me, folks who have self-nominated by investing in becoming more personally effective are an interesting bunch. I expect to learn things from them. I am curious a little about what they are up to, and more so about how they are doing what they do. But, I'm interested in terms of stealing from them, and stealing in terms of the truism that at a conference you learn more from attendees in the hallways than from the presentations.

I would prefer that whatever choices are made, they be made in terms of sustaining a peer community (God, I hate using those word. Next I'll be hugging crystals.) exploring their effectiveness together. I try to evaluate my contributions that way, although I often note after the fact that my contributions have not had the effect I anticipated.

But that's just me.

- JimBullock 2006.06.20

I think there's a difference between exploring the question of how to sell what you do, and actually advertising it. Both are good things, in their place. It's entirely possible I'm being overly purist in my grumpy reaction to straight-out advertising in a place I felt it didn't belong. But I see the Wiki more as a place to explore, to exchange ideas, to engage in discussion. A thread that's purely an ad or an announcement isn't a thread. It's a one-off and then it stops dead with no exchange and no life.

At the same time, there's a place for commerce in every living community. Sherry made the point that we are often the best market for each other's courses and books. And I too want to have the information. But I would prefer to see it in its own place. I like Dwayne's suggestion of a page specifically for announcements, ads, etc. That would have life, because it would change with each addition.

The hosts will do what they want to do, of course, but I don't agree it should be entirely up to them to decide. But then I don't choose to belong to any community that's run by an oligarchy. The only bumper sticker that ever appealed to me was "Resist Authority".

--FionaCharles 20-Jun-2006

I'm curious why a "not-so-subtle plug" in a discussion thread is okay with you, and a straight-forward presentation of information is not.

I can tell you that my intention in posting the workshop was to provide (I hope) relevant and useful information. I didn't see it as "flogging," (though I'm not sure what "flogging" means to you).

I do think its an intersting notion to have a Market Place where wiki members can post notices of workshops, books, etc.

(I am resisting sneaking in a not-so-sublte plug for my new book;-))

Esther 062106

A non-plug is, of course, a plug! (-:

I'm not opposed to commerce. It's what makes it possible for most of us to eat and sleep under a sound roof. I guess I don't mind the odd plug in regular discussion threads because selling is as natural to consultants (including me) as breathing, and on this forum, at least, plugs are flagged as such. The plugs I've seen haven't hurt the discussion any. There's still an exchange going on.

I've been puzzling over why I reacted as viscerally as I did to your workshop thread. The best I can come up with at the moment is that it's pure commerce, with no discussion, and therefore it felt inappropriate to me. One such thread isn't such a big deal, but I think a proliferation of them would be, and therefore I saw it as a bad precedent. In a marketplace on the Wiki, it would seem entirely appropriate.

I'm not sure that's a very satisfactory answer -- still thinking.

"Flogging" by the way, is Brit slang for selling. It can be, but is not necessarily, mildly disparaging or mocking.

--FionaCharles 21-Jun-2006 (First day of Summer!)

If I can join in as someone who is Not a free lance consultant, I would agree with Dwayne's suggestion. I might find it interesting to see what people are doing -- and if it is out here, I think that everyone who can log in to the AYE web should be able - encouraged? - to put their particular information out here.

But, I really don't want to be pulled in to a description of an individual workshop when I go to find out what the discussion is about. So, separating it into a particular area, so described, sounds like a good idea to me.

DianeGibson 21-Jun-2006

SherryHeinze 2006.06.21

EstherDerby 06212006

KurtSimmons 2006.06.21

I too like the idea of a separate MarketPlace. Would that be a good place to list 'Help Wanted' items or would a separate page make more sense? I found somebody for my needs, but last week I was looking for a few days help with a SQL project and I puzzled about where to look. I was specifically seeking help/recommendations from this community...

--SuePetersen 2006.06.22

Thank you to everyone for the creation of the community MarketPlace!

FionaCharles 22-Jun-2006