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ReactionsToNewIdeas

Hal is the lead of a project to stabilize the implementation of a software product. The implementation is failing badly at the Acme Corp for a variety of reasons.

Using email, Hal proposes to his technical staff a new solution to Acme's most urgent and important problem. The proposal contains a statement of the problem, assumptions, the relevant solutions that have already been discussed, and details about the new idea.

Hal doesn't know whether the new solution will work. Hal asks the technical staff to advice him on the feasibility of ABC, the proposed solution, by asking them to answer the following questions:

What would it take to make this idea work?
What is your experience using this approach at other customers?
What resources would be required?
What other questions should I be asking you?

Vernon, the lead technician, replies:

From the perspective of the person who may be directly involved in the effort, I believe the XYZ (add a new component) approach is the fastest way to get the information that Acme wants.

The above is Vernon's complete reply. He does not mention the questions. And does not include a copy of Hal's message.

Hal replies,

Vernon, I did a poor job of communicating the ABC idea.

Hal explains to Vernon that XYZ may require up to six months to fully implement, which causes heartburn for Acme. Hal gives more detail about the ABC proposal, points out that ABC might be implementable in a few weeks, adds that ABC is a supported approach but he understands that it is rarely used, and asks essentially the same set of questions about the feasibility of the idea.

Vernon replies:

This presupposed that DEF (a component of the product) has already been installed by Acme.

Why not have Acme do the XYZ (add a component) approach? We can provide an automated process for this.

BTW, ABC only supports the following systems...

The above text is Vernon's complete reply. Again he makes no mention of the questions. And does not copy Hal's message.

Hal replies that he wants to talk to Vernon one on one. Hal tells him that he knows that the DEF feature is installed on some of Acme systems but isn't sure how many. Hal asks Vernon to find out how many. Finally, Hal points out that the supported systems that Vernon mentions contain every type of system that ACME uses.

You are one on one with Vernon.

What do you hope to accomplish?
How would you start the conversation?

SteveSmith 2004.02.08

Do I have to answer your questions Steve? I would rather ask my own. Why did Hal not pick up the phone after the first letter? There is much that is confusing about this interaction (the state of mind of all concerned, whats really at stake here).

My view is that Hal needs to find out two different pieces of information. First he needs the answers to his questions about the proposed solutions and second he needs to understand the new solution and the reason for its introduction.

I will admit that I have a strong bias for component based changes and I wonder about the long term implications of your ABC, solution which appears to satify short term issues but does not seem to have been created with discussion with the technical staff.

In fact Vern states that XYZ is faster, hmmm, I wonder if there are other technical issues that Vern is having trouble vocalizing.

KenEstes 2004.02.08

Why did Hal not pick up the phone after the first letter?

I don't know. Perhaps Hal wants to check whether Vernon really understands the proposed idea. Perhaps Hal prefers communicating through email. Perhaps Hal and Vernon work different shifts.

First he needs the answers to his questions about the proposed solutions and second he needs to understand the new solution and the reason for its introduction.

XYZ is a known solution that was discussed in the first message under relevant solutions. It's what everyone, including Hal, wants to use. But it will take six months to implement because of change control issues at Acme.

I wonder about the long term implications of your ABC, solution which appears to satify short term issues but does not seem to have been created with discussion with the technical staff.

ABC is a short term solution and will be replaced by XYZ eventually. That action will require rework.

There are short and long term implications of a delay in solving Acme's urgent and important problem. Failure may result in losing Acme's business to a competitor.

In fact Vern states that XYZ is faster, hmmm, I wonder if there are other technical issues that Vern is having trouble vocalizing.

Vernon is verbalizing very little. Hal has asked about the feasibility of an idea. Hal is the project lead. Should Vernon, the lead technician, answer his questions?

SteveSmith 2004.02.08

Vernon is verbalizing very little

What is Vernon saying not-in-public and not-in-broadcast-email and not-where-Hal-can-hear? What is the benefit Vernon gets from communicating very little?

I have known technical leads who did not feel secure in their positions. They feared that if they shared all their knowledge freely, then there would be no reason to keep them around. They believed they were valued as a static reference, rather than as a thinking human being. So they clammed up a lot.

I would not meet with Vernon one-on-one; instead, I would meet as a group, and reward sharing behaviors. It might not happen for this project, but I would hope that Vernon goes from beeing viewed as "that smart guy who won't share" to "that smart guy." Or maybe "that guy who won't share."

But since Hal is meeting with Vernon 1-on-1, then Hal should ask why Vernon is not sharing more of his thoughts in the public forum. Then Hal should work on removing whatever is blocking Vernon from doing so.

--DaveLiebreich 2004.02.08

What is Vernon saying not-in-public and not-in-broadcast-email and not-where-Hal-can-hear?

Hal doesn't know. I don't know.

What is the benefit Vernon gets from communicating very little?

Your guess is as good as anyones.

Hal should ask why Vernon is not sharing more of his thoughts in the public forum.

Okay. Sounds good.

Then Hal should work on removing whatever is blocking Vernon from doing so.

Okay. That's good advice.

I interpret that you (Dave) thinks that Vernon may be afraid to speak his mind.

I interpret that Ken thinks that Vernon may have difficulty speaking his mind.

Another possibility is that Vernon is intentionally avoiding Hal's questions so that the ABC approach is never evaluated. Thus the XYZ approach, which he keeps returning to in his messages, will be chosen.

Assume you are Hal. You want to explore the feasibility of all the solutions. How would you construct the conversation with Vernon so that you got data about the feasibility of the ABC approach?

If you don't like being Hal, assume that you are Vernon.

SteveSmith 2004.02.08

My view is that Hal needs to find out two different pieces of information. . . .

Hal needs to figure out a third thing - the quality of the communication that is going on between himself and Vern. "Quality is value to some person." Hal's not getting a lot of value here.

I know the default way I'd go about this, but I'm suspicious that I'm not particularly good at this kind of thing. I'm hoping to hear something I can use here.

-- JimBullock

I'm curious about Vernon's phrase "from the perspective of the person who may be directly involved in the effort". What might that mean ? It seems to me that the above responses have not taken into account whatever Vernon meant to express with that phrase. The chances of getting through to Vernon might be slim if he feels that his concerns are being ignored.

My totally unsubstantiated hunch is that Vernon feels Hal is going over Vernon's head in inquiring about ABC with the rest of the technical staff. Another hunch is that Vernon is being protective of "his" product, while Hal is earnestly seeking to serve "his" customer. Vernon may feel that Acme's urgent need for a solution is not sufficient justification to adopt what he regards as a technically inferior solution.

Where do Hal and Vernon seem to be on the MBTI chart ?

-- LaurentBossavit 04.02.09

I'm curious about Vernon's phrase "from the perspective of the person who may be directly involved in the effort". What might that mean?

Vernon will do the lion's share of the work to make the selected approach work. He will have to do double the work if ABC is chosen: Implement ABC now and then implement XYZ rather than just implementing XYZ.

The chances of getting through to Vernon might be slim if he feels that his concerns are being ignored.

Clearly, Vernon hasn't shared his concerns. Hal wants to explore the possibilities of an alternative solution.

My totally unsubstantiated hunch is that Vernon feels Hal is going over Vernon's head in inquiring about ABC with the rest of the technical staff.

It depends on your point of view. Hal is the senior technician on the project team. So from one point of view, it's like Hal went under his head.

Another hunch is that Vernon is being protective of "his" product, while Hal is earnestly seeking to serve "his" customer. Vernon may feel that Acme's urgent need for a solution is not sufficient justification to adopt what he regards as a technically inferior solution.

Who should make that choice? Hal? Vernon? Consensus? How should whomever decide?

SteveSmith 2004.02.09

Vernon will do the lion's share of the work to make the selected approach work. He will have to do double the work if ABC is chosen: Implement ABC now and then implement XYZ rather than just implementing XYZ.

Is Vernon paid on salary, by the hour, or what? Who is accountable for P & L for the "service" chunk of the business? What about for product sales?

- JimBullock 2004.02.09

Is Vernon paid on salary, by the hour, or what?

Salaried.

Who is accountable for P & L for the "service" chunk of the business?

Craig who is Hal's manager.

Veron's manager is Dave who reports to Craig.

What about for product sales?

A combination of a sales person and Craig, Hal and Dave's manager.

SteveSmith 2004.02.09

XYZ is a known solution that was discussed in the first message under relevant solutions. It's what everyone, including Hal, wants to use. But it will take six months to implement because of change control issues at Acme.

Is this really a process issue in disguise? Is the Change Control getting in the way of this particular problem? I am wondering if you could find a way to meet the intent of the change control system yet still get the XYZ change out in a timely fashion.

KenEstes 2004.02.09

Is the Change Control getting in the way of this particular problem?

At this point, change control is a constraint. You cannot quickly change the sytems to enable the XYZ approach.

My interpretation is that you want to focus on the technical problem. Noble.

If you solve the technical problem, you won't have to address the communication problem between Hal and Vernon. But a similar communication problem will appear during the next project.

When would you address the communcation problem? Or, would you ignore it?

SteveSmith 2004.02.09

> My interpretation is that you want to focus on the technical problem. Noble.

I am trying to grapple with the issue of when is process not appropriate. I am curious if your "technical issue" is really a "process/cultural issue" which forces you to think it is a technical problem not the way your organize your projects.

I am all in favor of standards but what do you do when they get in the way? What happens when the call for "we need an exception/waiver for this process" is not whining but in fact is a reasonable thing to do? I remember Jerry stating that the first thing he does on his consulting assignments is to tell upper management that "As a result of my work here, there will be people asking for waivers, do not give them." Could this be a bad idea? What happens when exceptions are needed but congruent people do not understand all the issues?

This is related to a few other topics that I have started on this wiki which all amount to the same issue, how do you make the distinction between good process and bad process, I am concerned that the line is not nearly as sharp as I wish it was (being a "J", I always hope there is a "right" answer to the question "is this a good thing to do").

Here is something concrete related to this issue. At a web company I worked at, there was a heavy change control process for production. The Developers were livid because they needed to make rapid changes, at a days notice, to the advertising code. Production created the change control process because they were worried about "high risk" changes to the whole infrastructure. It turns out that the advertising code was not considered high risk. It would have been simple to architecturally separate the advertisement code and allow changes to advertisements to follow a separate light weight process from changes to the rest of the code. However this was never done and the different concerns of all parties were all mixed together under the rubric of "code changes" and made everyone miserable for years.

KenEstes 2004.02.04

I am trying to grapple with the issue of when is process not appropriate.

Hal prefers that you grapple with his issue. How does he get information from Vernon about the feasibility of ABC?

Hal feels like his que

stions aren't being answered. Again...

SteveSmith 2004.02.09

I do not understand why questioning your assumptions about what this discussion is really about is not considered an on topic response. Vern might understand my questions.

KenEstes 2004.02.09

Vern might understand my questions.

He might. But, if history repeats itself, he won't answer them.

SteveSmith 2004.02.09

I?m getting a funny response to this exchange, and I am not sure what to do with it. When I read what Hal and Vernon say, I get a tightness in my gut that does not match with what I read. I know that Hal is being reasonable, but I do not feel as if Hal is being reasonable. I know that Vernon is being uncommunicative, however I do not feel as if Hal deserves to be communicated with.

ShannonSeverance 2004.02.09

You say that the problem and assumptions have been discussed. Have they been agreed to?

You say that the short-term solution ABC will eventually be replaced by XYZ. I don't see that important point mentioned in any of the messages or conversations between Hal and Vernon. Do they both know this? Do they both know that the other knows? How do you know?

Vernon's statement, I wonder about the long term implications of your ABC, solution which appears to satisfy short term issues but does not seem to have been created with discussion with the technical staff, though vague, seems responsive. Vernon is concerned about some (unstated) long term implications. I'm curious about what implications Vernon is seeing, so I'd ask him about that.

The second part of that statement seems to indicate a relationship issue. Vernon is saying that he has expectations about how proposals will be created, weighed, and decided within this relationship, and that Hal has violated those expectations. I have a hunch that this is a symptom of earlier unresolved relationship stuff. I expect that if Hal wants to make progress on the technical aspects of the problem, he will first have to address the relationship issue.

--DaleEmery 2004.02.10

I've been reading this and the only thing clear to me is that Hal and Vernon are talking past each other. I don't have enough information to judge either's motivations. Perhaps most important is what has happened in the past. Has Hal forced such situtations before by shifting responsbility as soon as someone says a positive word about his proposals? Has Vernon seen most of his ideas shot down, causing him to wonder why he's the technical lead? IOW, I don't know much about the context, so I can't judge if Vernon is being incongruent. Hal's decision to talk FTF seems exactly right. I would start with me (Hal) facing a mirror and attempting to review just that context, especially my own predilections.

MikeMelendez 2004.02.10

I know that Hal is being reasonable, but I do not feel as if Hal is being reasonable. I know that Vernon is being uncommunicative, however I do not feel as if Hal deserves to be communicated with.

What are your assumptions about Hal? Vernon?

I interpret that identify with Vernon. Is my interpretation correct?

Has Hal forced such situtations before by shifting responsbility as soon as someone says a positive word about his proposals?

No.

Has Vernon seen most of his ideas shot down, causing him to wonder why he's the technical lead?

Vernon works on several projects at the same time. Hal hasn't shot down any of his ideas. Hal doesn't know whether other project leads have.

You say that the problem and assumptions have been discussed. Have they been agreed to?

Yes.

You say that the short-term solution ABC will eventually be replaced by XYZ. I don't see that important point mentioned in any of the messages or conversations between Hal and Vernon. Do they both know this? Do they both know that the other knows? How do you know?

Yes, they both know it. Acme has a project that will install new features, including XYZ, on all their servers. It's a massive change that will require six months to complete.

Vernon is concerned about some (unstated) long term implications. I'm curious about what implications Vernon is seeing, so I'd ask him about that.

Got it. Thanks.

Vernon is saying that he has expectations about how proposals will be created, weighed, and decided within this relationship, and that Hal has violated those expectations.

Perhaps. That point deserves exploration with Vernon.

I am curious about a dynamic that I'm seeing in this discussion. Is this a truf war? Must all ideas for solving problems origninate from the technical staff?

Hal doesn't give a hoot which alternative is chosen. He just wants all the relevant alternatives evaluated. He wants his project team to reach consensus on the alternative that provides the most effective tradeoff.

Hal is suspicious when someone won't provide him information. He wonders whether Vernon has a hidden agenda.

SteveSmith 2004.02.10

turf war

What kind of culture is it where every decision of impact/visibility/scope/something over a particular threshold becomes a turf war? --DaveLiebreich 2004.02.10

What kind of culture is it where every decision of impact/visibility/scope/something over a particular threshold becomes a turf war?

Blaming.

The question remains though. Is it a turf war?

If you were Vernon, how would feel if the project lead suggested a valid solution to a problem that you hadn't thought of first?

SteveSmith 2004.02.10

Hal is suspicious when someone won't provide him information.

Hal's perception that Vernon is not replying to his questions is correct if your (Steve's) account of the exchanges is complete, but "suspicious" sounds like Hal is jumping straight from Intake to Significance.

How would you characterize Hal and Vernon in MBTI terms ?

LaurentBossavit 04.02.10

(Later thoughts.) I might be making some incorrect assumptions here. Steve, I'd like you to clarify a few things for me.

Hal is asking "the technical staff" to advise him. This means several people in addition to Vernon ?

Vernon is expected to do most of the work in implementing a solution. That is the first item of information that originated from Vernon in the exchange we are examining. I'm tempted to view it as significant. But I don't know what this expectation is based on.

Is this definite, or subject to change ? Is Vernon expected to do most of the work because the others are not as capable, not available, or ?..

I've figured out why this thread is so interesting to me. I've been in a position similar to Hal's rather recently.

Laurent

What are your assumptions about Hal? Vernon? I?m not sure. I especially do not know what assumptions are being made by my gut in this matter. I suspect that this matter has already been discussed, and the non-ABC alternatives considered, and XYZ chosen. Vernon may think the decision is already closed, and is simply not interested in reopening it. I interpret that [you] identify with Vernon. Is my interpretation correct? Feels that way.

Many people do not read long emails. It sounds like both of the early emails that Hal sent out were lengthy. I would not assume that Vernon has read much of either email, even though he responded to both.

Vernon works on several projects at the same time. Does Vernon have time to answer all the questions Hal proposed? Or, is answering Hal?s questions a priority? I have found when I am assigned to multiple projects that everyone expects their project to have top priority. If this is why he is not providing answers, it would be nice for Vernon?s response to be something like, "Those are interesting questions Hal. Unfortunately I do not have time now . . ." When I push back because of mismatched priorities I try to let the other side know how my priorities get set, to give them an escalation point if they think I am wrong about my priorities.

ShannonSeverance 2004.02.10

"From the perspective of the person who may be directly involved in the effort, ...".

is a big flag in that direction.

I can imagine Vernon feeling like he's about to be on the losing end of a win/lose situation. His lack of communication about ABC could be stubborn resistance to being handed the short end of the stick.

Can Hal find out if Vernon's management made some prior promises to Vernon about what he could expect to do next?

--DaveSmith 2004.02.10

I'm excited about the replies. I wish I could reply now. But it's late. And I need a break. I'll be back tomorrow evening.

SteveSmith 2004.02.10

How would you characterize Hal and Vernon in MBTI terms?

I suspect Hal is an NF and Vernon is an SJ.

Hal is asking "the technical staff" to advise him. This means several people in addition to Vernon ?

Yes. One person, junior to Vernon, did respond with an analysis. Vernon ignored it.

Is this definite, or subject to change ? Is Vernon expected to do most of the work because the others are not as capable, not available, or ?..

Vernon writes the specification. He or someone else does the install. In this case, Veronon would do both because he works out of the same city as the customer.

I've figured out why this thread is so interesting to me. I've been in a position similar to Hal's rather recently.

What did you do?

Many people do not read long emails. It sounds like both of the early emails that Hal sent out were lengthy.

I checked. First message was 206 words. Second message was 136 words with a picture.

Does Vernon have time to answer all the questions Hal proposed? Or, is answering Hal?s questions a priority?

You hit a problem on the head. Everything is urgent in this organization. Hal's advantage is that the customer is one of the largest in the region.

If Hal isn't satisfied he can escalate to Hal's manager. He hasn't at this point. Vernon has not provide any information to Hal about other priorities. Hal has not asked Vernon about his other commitments.

When I push back because of mismatched priorities I try to let the other side know how my priorities get set, to give them an escalation point if they think I am wrong about my priorities.

Smart. Nice work.

I'm wondering is Vernon isn't less than thrilled at being presented with a "solution" that pushes his workload out into the future by several months without his having had the opportunity ...

Agreed. I would certainly be less than thrilled.

I can imagine Vernon feeling like he's about to be on the losing end of a win/lose situation. His lack of communication about ABC could be stubborn resistance to being handed the short end of the stick.

Agreed.

Can Hal find out if Vernon's management made some prior promises to Vernon about what he could expect to do next?

Hmmm. Perhaps. I'll ask Hal.

SteveSmith 2004.02.11

It's taken me a while to express clearly that there are several conversations going on here between Hal and Vernon, not necessarily all of them out loud. At least these, phrased from Hal's point of view:

• The "I need help now." conversation, about supporting Acme.
• The "What kind of support can I & should I expect from you?" conversation about Hal's expectations of Vernon, in the course of Hal doing his job.
• The "What is who's job here?" conversation, that includes Hal and Vernon, but also Hals' boss, colleagues & customers, and Vernon's boss, colleagues & customers.
• The "I'm ticked off at getting stiffed in the past." conversation about non-support (from Hal's POV) in other situations.
• The "How is our communication working or not?" conversation, that's mostly being had through silence on both parts. (Passive-Aggressive is a too casually applied label often sewn on the frock of the wrong member of a passion-play to shame mere indescretions. Still, if the scarlet letter fits . . . )

Back in the day when I was totally clueless, were I Hal I'd get us in a room and lay this out all at once. I am now only mostly clueless, so if I were Hal I'd do this (based on the information at hand):

• Confirm that as far as I know the organization is organized the way I think it is organized: I ought to be asking Vernon for this kind of information, and I ought to get it from him. I poked at this in a previous entry here.
• Have a conversation face to face with Vernon about exactly one of two things. This is one of those clues I have gained - have one conversation at a time.
  • If the situation with Acme corp is massively urgent, and massively important, have a conversation about taking care of Acme corp - the first conversation listed above.
  • If the situation is less than massively urgent or important, have a conversation about the working together part itself - the last conversation listed above.

In either case, start with: "The way we are communicating isn't working for me. I have a need (to satisfy Acme immediately, or to work with you more easily, depending). What's going on here and how do we make this work?"

Then do the active listening thing.

-- JimBullock, 2004.02.12 (It's a small clue - no burden at all to carry.) -- JimBullock, 2004.02.12 (Edits.)

Thanks Jim. --KenEstes

You are welcome. - jb

SteveSmith 2004.02.14

Can we have some information on what has happened in this environment.

KenEstes 2004.03.01

I came across your quesiton while reviewing old threads and answered it based on a different thread so the following is a revision to something I posted a few minutes ago.

Hal and Vernon came to appreciate each other. Vernon still has difficulty with some of Hal's ideas. Hal has difficulty with Vernon's laconic communication and seeming resistance to answering quesitons. The do talk and work it out though.

-SteveSmith 2004.12.30