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TimetoMoveonMany folks are unemployed. Some of us even! Some of us stay in jobs too long. Some of us became consultants because we are inherently unemployable for long periods by organizations. Lots of us have rules about staying in jobs, moving on to new jobs. Some of those rules are helpful, some aren't. How do you know it's time to move on, to another job? Does anything prevent you from moving to a new job? What are your concerns about moving or staying? JohannaRothman 2003.05.16 I've been given the advice, "don't quit until you have some place (job) to move to." But what I really want is a long vacation (2 or 3 months), not a new job immediately. And of course, in this environment, a new job could take more than 3 months to find. I'm staying where I am, regarding it as a challenge in change artistry, learning more about myself as well as how to "change" others. Recently found another ally for change, a QA manager willing to do some work to support change. KeithRay 2003.05.16 Once, long ago, I knew that it was time to move on when the latest Massive Design Document was plopped onto my desk, and I accidentally shredded that document instead of the one it replaced. I figured that my subconscious was trying to tell me something. DaveSmith 2003.05.16 I knew it was time to move on when I realized I was considered part of the computer equipment. This was before "The Matrix" was released. -DaveLiebreich 2003.05.16 Did they try to stick a bar-coded asset tag on you? -BobLee 2003.05.16 Interesting question Johanna. I was called today by a manager in another part of the government. We had worked together well in the past, and he has a big project coming up. He wants me to come over and run the project for him. He called me about this three months ago, two months ago, and again today. I have hesitated because I have been in my current job 11 1/2 months. I feel I should be in it at least one year before moving again. The reason is that the people here are so good to me. Very pleasant, helpful, courteous, and kind. My boss is super. I am not challenged here and sometimes bored, but it is a comfortable job. So, next week I will go talk with the other manager in person and chat with some of the people that I would work with if I changed jobs. I have many questions for them regarding the project, its funding, sponsor, possible rewards, and many other items. We shall see. DwaynePhillips 16 May 2003 Two indicators of when it's time to move on:
Any job is essentially a fairly consistent set of asks and offers. Boss or customers "ask" for something, say "this report", and you "offer" to create that report. When ask and offer line up, there is a viable transaction going on there - we call it "adding value." So there's lots of ways the ask and offer can fail to line up. But if they don't and you can't make them, the job isn't viable. Move on. The "Oh my god!" ratio is approximately the number of "Oh my god!" events per conversation with people who should know better. You know what I mean. You're talking with someone about the issue of the moment and out of their mouth comes something that makes you say: "Oh, my god!" "We're late, so it's time to go to heroics." is one from a project I - er - experienced. Then they started planning how they would make the upcoming absences up to the wives of the engineers. OK. Heroics around here isn't an accident, or even something to be regretted, it's an accepted solution. And where are the engineers in this conversation? Incidentally, that particular programming staff was about 40% female, and about 60% unmarried. I would count this as one "Oh my god." event, since once any given conversation heads down the rabbit hole, nothing they do is going to track reality as we know it. Too many "Oh my God" events per converation and the people around you aren't up to their jobs - at least not as far as you believe. Whether you are right or wrong that's not a formula for confidence, or even comfort. If you're right, that's not a formula for the survival of the business. These two are indicators for when to decide to move on. You might want to do so immediately. I think it's better to decide that your current situation isn't viable, then plan and execute a move that is optimum for you. My personal record from deciding that it was time to get out to getting out was about 10 months. Took that long to execute an optimum exit. -- JimBullock, 2003.05.16 How do you know it's time to move on, to another job? when the manager is removed from your project and another one put in his place, and the team leader quits, and everyone else switches from coding to updating their resumes... I'm wondering if JobSharing is possible. Keith Ray 2003.05.16 Major concern: change. How do I know the job I'm in won't change? How do I know the wonderful job I'm jumping to won't change? Sooner or later they all change and, sometimes, not for the better. My biggest indicator is crisis, i.e. where crisis is considered a solution rather than a reaction because we didn't have a solution. Heroics, my eye. Make that, my AYE. -- MikeMelendez 2003.05.17 Mike makes a great point. I had been in one place for five years. The managers changed over and I didn't like what was happening, so I looked for a new place. Once I found one, but before making the move, some other managers moved into a group across the hall. Had I known that, I would have gone to that group across the hall instead of where I chose. Now I am thinking about going back across the hall. This time, however, I have a new set of questions to ask of people. I know that managers will change positions and I know about how often. I also know lots of questions to ask about funding and lifetimes of programs. DwaynePhillips 18 May 2003 when the manager is removed from your project and... Keith, I think this suggests looking at the "Truck Factor". Maybe plural management supporters are a prereqisite. How fragile is the agile environment here? BobLee 2003.05.18 Dwayne, What are some of the questions you've learned to help assess the situation you're considering moving into? ED 051803 Some questions for the managers
Some budget questions
Quality of life questions
Other job questions
Well, that's a few of them that I can think of at this time. (looking at the wiki, the question numbers don't appear as I entered them, any tips on how to number items?) DwaynePhillips 19 May 2003 One question I've often asked myself is, "Is someone prepared yet to do what my position requires?" If the answer is yes, I'm free to consider another challenge. If the answer is no, I consider whether anyone is being groomed but is unready or whether no efforts are encouraged to grow someone into that role. If the organization resists grooming people in the pipeline, then I feel that says something about my freedom to grow in my own career with this organization. I do enjoy bringing someone "up to speed", and/or documenting what I've learned, but not when there's lots of organizational resistance to "wasting that time doing that." --BobLee 2003.05.19 Keith's desire for a 2-3 month vacation added to Jim Bullock's observations about Ask/Offer and "Oh my God" all are triggers that have kicked off feelings of desparation for me. Especially Oh my God. When the world gets weird the weird get going... or something like that. I've made a huge change recently and am surprised at how much I am enjoying it. After being independent since 1984, including a stint as company owner and president, I am now someone else's employee. I am finding it rather enjoyable. Maybe this will change over time. Right now I realize how much I can help them and they seem eager to let me do that. Last week I was asked if I wanted to mentor someone. What a treat! I'm not feeling very curmudgeonly or grumpy or anything but gratified right now. Change is good. Besides I'm working locally for the first time in nearly 20 years. I have a two day weekend! BeckyWinant 5-19-2003 I went back to contracting just over a year ago, after 3 years as staff in a consulting company. I am still very glad I took the job for an assortment of reasons, including the fact that it was a major part of how I found out about and came to AYE. I left over where I would not work (the major client) and how the training budget would be spent in future, but I left of my own choice and on good terms. I am still in frequent contract with a few of the people. I was sorry to leave, but it was time to move on. Most of the time that I was there, I was very glad to be. I hope it works out as well for you, but longer. SherryHeinze 2003.05.19 How do you know it's time to move on, to another job? When too many people have flipped the bozo bit and start treating you like an idiot. speaking of bozo bits, I think we could use a thread on what causes you to flip the BozoBit on someone, and what causes you to flip it back? Does anything prevent you from moving to a new job? Many programmers are slightly reluctant to leave before a project is completed. There's an old Buddhist story about a hermit seeking enlightment, dwelling in an isolated mountain forest. One day he encountered a soldier, who asked him "what are you doing out here?" and he replied "I'm learning to love all people." The soldier said "love this!" and slapped/punched the hermit. The moral of the story, if there is one, is that learning to love all people shouldn't be done in isolation. One might stay with an abusive boss / coworkers as an exercise in learning to love those who are the hardest to love. But that could also be considered masochistic. I don't know who I'm responding to, but as I recall, there was more to that story - about how the monk really did learn to love the soldier, and how the soldier was transformed by the monk's behavior. I can't recall the details, but perhaps some other contributor can. My own formula for moving on was always this: When I'm not learning as much as I'd like, I move to a place where I will. - JerryWeinberg 2003.05.25 Something on a SHAPE thread this morning reminded me of one I forget too often. It is time to move on when I find that either soft or hard copies of CYA documents have come home with me because I do not believe that they are safe in the office. That feeling may be partly a fear of being suddenly removed without an opportunity to collect paperwork, but it is sometimes a fear that someone will delete soft copies on a common drive. SherryHeinze 2003.06.02 lack of trust - a reason to move on (similar to the bozo bit). - ThePhantomPoster
Updated: Tuesday, June 3, 2003 |
