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HowDoWeLearnIn ReadingAndWritingPreferences I thought this would be an interesting thread - BeckyWinant 2002.07.08 Keith commented: I'm getting amazingly little interest in having brown bags at my office. I once tried to get permission to host Allan Shalloway, who was looking for sites to do free lectures about refactoring and design patterns, but couldn't find a manager interested in it. I have been asked to give a presentation about XP to a department that mostly does image processing code, but besides my work-load, I'm a bit depressed by our lack of culture change... by doing only about 80% of XP's practices-- "the easy ones" -- we reap only 40% of its benefits (some consultants say it is 80/20). That department probably isn't that interested in XP, and might not benefit that much from doing it -- image processing is one area where test-first doesn't seem to help much (though regression tests help a lot). Some things can be divided into "lessons"., each being useful. Somethings cannot. The latter is rather like the proverbial saying: " It doesn't work to leap a twenty-foot chasm in two ten-foot jumps. " I have faced that same problem as you have when working with people hoping to adopt a new process, then doing it half-way. I think your observation that they want to do what is easy is right on. I have noticed in those organizations that management is not changing their expectations to accomodate a temporary hit form any sort of learning curve. They give in to a need at some level to change, but it shouldn't affect them or schedules or budgets. On the side of small silver linings, I've noticed that some people as they try the half-method, discover they need more (instead of rejecting it). These people begin to add to their practice the extras they need. How would you describe your current management's expectations? - BeckyWinant 2002.07.08 BobLee wrote: I think I'm a look-ahead learner. I want to decide whether to commit stuff to storage, and want to validate the content to an extent before "swallowing". I'm not certain that I can really clean out discordant webs of stuff, but if I can, it must be uphill work. I like to scan the table of contents, jacket flap, bibliography to see where I'm heading. That frustrates me in a lecture - can't look ahead unless there's an agenda. Learning is hard but pleasant work - finding and connecting ideas. Trying to do that at real-time with disorganized material frustrates me. I need reflect time to clear my in-basket. Bob, this is interesting! I would describe my frustation with learning happens when I don't have a big picture - what is the context and why are we here. I have minimal patience with the step-by-step follow-me approach. Is this similar to your look ahead or different? My "clearing my in basket" metaphor mind be something like I need to "shift my focal length" to get to an appropriate perspective. -BeckyWinant 2002.07.08 Becky, changes in focal length or just "magic number 7 + or - 2"? If you are in validate ["do I want to know"] mode, continuing the sequential steps without the overview is torture - you can feel the 8th, 9th, etc. step overflowing off your short-term memory queue! In Toastmasters, we emphasize organizing a speech:
Speaking is quite different than written media - the audience can't back up and re-read. [People with strong Auditory preference probably can replay the spoken words, but others can't!] Consequently, planning a successful verbal presentation requires highlighting the planned significance before the step-by-step part. This gives non-auditory folks a chance to home in. --BobLee 2002.07.08 Johanna had described my writing style as "spiraling." I don't use an outline (eeek! the thought makes me cringe!), I circle through the material, starting broad and getting tighter and more focused as I go. I think that's how I learn, too. Actually, I often write to learn. Spiraling through the material and shaping my thoughts is actully quite fun (for me). EstherDerby 07/10/02 Bob, I like your description of exceeding 7+2 in supporting your "clearing the basket idea". Writing and speaking are different, indeed. To play off of Esther's metaphor, for me writing is like sculpting and shaping. Or, maybe even collage. Speaking is more like navigation where I use my intended direction, but also need to respond to the audience. (Oh, they're sleeping now, time to shift gears! or Oh, look at the expressions on people's faces. This is getting a reaction!). - BeckyWinant 2002.07.10 Writing for me is definitely three-dimensional sculpture, I don't use outlines, though I create them once I'm done to check the structure. When I'm working on a book, I can actually feel it's design in my hands, and shape it almost without awareness that I'm typing words. - JerryWeinberg 2002.07.10 Esther's spiral method of writing is very similar to mine (hmm, Esther and I may have some Myers-Briggs commonalities). I don't make an outline, either, until I have so much material that I get lost. Then I create the outline so that I can move to material I'm looking for faster. Another writing method I use when I'm starting from a specific rather than the big picture is what I like to call layering. Build a layer, expand with another layer, expand again until the piece works. -MarieBenesh 2002.07.11 Discusion to two learning modes on the XP mailing list... 'Representationalists" (or modelers) and "Experientialists" or "Map People" and "Field People", with some argument if that aligns with MyersBrigg's N (intuiting) and S (sensing). Here' s a quote: "I had a conversation about this with a colleague a couple of months ago. He pointed out that he needed me to slow down and spend much more time *drawing the map*, so to speak, before he felt confident starting out on the development of the solution. I had always thought of this as sensing." When programming, I tend to draw the map only if I've "gotten lost" (and then I draw Just Enough Map), otherwise I know where I'm going and don't need the map. --KeithRay 2002.07.11 Keith, your friend is bridging your communication gap: perhaps he's a visual rather than auditory learner -- arranging to see it helps him process -- it's not the writing but the reading. Constructing a mental map from verbal cues is hard for me, too. or a kinesthetic learner? see Fiona below -- sounds Kinesthetic to me --bob --BobLee 2002.07.11 I think I don't hear properly when information is presented orally. I need to work through how to represent something before I can understand it, both in learning and in problem-solving. So I constantly construct models in an attempt to get my hands around the inner logic of whatever it is. They could be hierarchical word-models, or colour-coded flows, or matrices, or anything else that seems to make sense. �Getting my hands around� the thing is the clue. I have to make an abstract into something concrete. I write a lot for projects, but have never written for publication. I recently started writing �a thing� I thought might become an article, or the basis for an internal seminar � I didn�t know what. I�m trying to capture and communicate a way of using test metrics, something I�ve worked on over several sw development projects. I started writing with an outline, then I wrote some stuff about planning, and stepped back and wrote an intro, then went back to planning. It was going gangbusters and suddenly it went all fuzzy on me. I realized I needed to stop writing altogether and generalize the model I�d used to develop a plan on my last project. I�ve since spent a happy couple of weeks working through the components, purging useless stuff and adding some new things, and fixing and documenting the calculations. Finally it hit me: this isn�t about how to use metrics for planning, tracking and reporting on testing, as I'd originally thought. This is a presentation of a particular model. I don�t know where it�s going to end up, or if it will be interesting to other people, but I�m finding it very engrossing. The act of representing it is an intense learning experience. --FionaCharles 2002.07.11 Fiona, [a hint: Don't use curly quotes on the wiki.] Your 'getting your hands around' is like my sculpting, I think. This may be a kinesthetic component to your learning, as opposed to either auditory or visual. - JerryWeinberg 2002.07.11 When we visited our son and grandchildren in Boston, we discovered a new way people learn: from the mouths of little children. The grandkids like to watch the Beatles Yellow Submarine video at home. When the family went out to a restaurant, Clint (2 1/2 years old) stood on his chair, turned around, pointed his chubby arm at a man at the next table, and broke loudly into, "He's a real Nowhere Man, Living in his nowhere land..." They were able to get Clint's arm down, but Clint kept rolling on with the song. I wonder what the man's date thought? Wow! I'll bet he learned not to take dates to family restaurants! --BobLee Bastille Day, 2002 How would you describe your current management's expectations? My manager has expressed disappointment that my team is not "available" for other work. I explained that we were not told about other work when we were planning our projects, and we planned to spend 100% of our time on those projects. I proposed planning to spend 80% of our time on those projects (which would reduce features or lengthen schedules), but my manager says that is unacceptable. The thing is: XP accurately measures how much work you do (velocity), and you plan based on that. XP insures that that you maximize your productive time and minimize your unproductive time. Thus the velocity isn't something easily changed... it is like measuring the speed of a sailboat -- you've already reduced drag by taking the anchor out of the water and angling the sails appropriately, and now you're going at maximum speed. You can't go faster. My manager wants us to do more work, but not REALLY change how we do our work. He wants to put 10 pounds of sugar into a 5 pound bag. He really just wants us to do lots of overtime.... KeithRay 2002.07.19 Keith, buy a copy of Peopleware and "lose" it to this manager. Keep a copy of your own visible on your desk. Be prepared to discuss it. This is a test... If your manager is ignorant of the effects of flow disruption, of overtime, educate. If he's into Spanish Theory Management, "Change your organization - or - change your organization." BobLee 2002.07.19 Keith Too bad your manager dosn't practice XM! I think his boat metaphor is more like the galley model than the sailing ship. If you have enough slaves and a large enough whip, who cares what the wind is doing? - BeckyWinant 2002.07.19 Thanks, Becky, you made me laugh! We can't hire any more galley slaves right now, so I think he's going to wield a more painful whip! Old joke: Q: how did you get that piano moved up those stairs to the second floor? Q: how did you get the cat to drag that piano? KeithRay 2002.07.20 Keith, Love the reminiscence on the piano joke :) Now, how do you think your manager would respond to the joke? I don't know where you work, but I'm feeling more and more like this organization needs to S H I F-F-F T gears. It would be intersting to understand how they learn. SteveSmith has been discussing the challenges of teaching inexperienced people. I wonder if training your manager is a variation on this theme? - BeckyWinant 7-20-02
Updated: Saturday, July 20, 2002 |
